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 19/04/24
DESPITE EXILE + LACERHATE + SLOWCHAMBER
BLOOM, VIA CURIEL 39 - MEZZAGO (MB)
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INQUISITION - Enter the Cult: Interview with Dagon (english version)
18/03/2015 (5067 letture)
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(Click here for the italian version)
During the last Inquisition show in Brescia with Archgoat (you can read the live report of the gig, in Italian, here here), I had the pleasure to interview their frontman Dagon. Here's our interesting and very long chat.
Selenia: As every band at the beginning of their career, you started releasing some demos on your own, before finding a label interested in your musical proposal. But which were in particular the difficulties and problems you had in the early days? Dagon: There are always some difficulties at the beginning, it is a constant challenge and I think that, as it often is when one starts something, usually the obstacles are financial. When you’re a kid, you know, you wanna get your own guitar, but especially where I was living this wasn’t easy and my parents as well did not make things easy for me. They didn't support me immediately, only later. When they let me have my own guitar, it was a really crappy one, a very cheap guitar that I treated as it was worth a thousand dollars. But that taught me a lot to appreciate my instrument and to treat it with the highest respect. Then, the other main problem was that the other ones were totally ignorant: everybody wanted to tell their opinion and thought to be right. Especially as a song writer, you have then to manage all these kind of things, deal with all the criticism. So, you have to look forward, not caring about the others, since that’s probably the most important thing to overcome: one has to listen to their own voice and to believe in their own goal.
Selenia: How was the Colombian metal scene at the time? Dagon: It’s difficult to describe, because it was not any different from any other scene, but the differences were about the quality. It was incredible, because we had music that came from United States, from Europe and then of course there were the obscure South American bands that back in that day they were extremely extreme. There were Parabellum, there were Sacrilegio in Colombia that I think are the most evil black metal band that ever existed and every time I say to people that, they think I’m exaggerating, but then they usually agree with me... and that's from 1984!
Selenia: Then you basically started to occupy an important place in the black metal scene, so this meant an increasing interest of the labels, like Hell's Headbangers and finally Season of Mist. How did you live this success and how did you work on it? Dagon: It didn’t take a lot of thinking, I just figured that we needed a better distribution, it was time to get more. As we were doing more tours, the venues were starting to increase in size, which is a good thing, I mean, a lot of people were going to our shows and I felt we needed a bigger circuit to tour in. Then, you know, you can download the music from internet but a lot of people were saying that wanted the hard copy of our music and they were complaining that they cannot get the copy of our cds or vinyls, so I said ‘Now it’s time to be in a bigger touring agency and in a bigger label to have a better distribution'. We started looking at some labels and we figured out that Season of Mist was the best, I actually like that, because they want unique and different stuff and, you like it or not, it’s always a good stuff. Michael [Berberian, label founder, editor's note.] is an artist himself, he has good taste, he’s good at handling his label, he doesn’t interfere with the vision of the artists. If anything, Michael helps a lot.
Selenia: Talking about your latest studio album, Obscure Verses of The Multiverse ,it is the first one you released with your new label, which also coincided with a change of the artist in charge of doing the artwork. Rumours said that this decision had been like forced by Season of Mist, who wanted you to take some distances from Antichrist Kramer, who did the previous artworks, just because of his implication in the NSBM scene. Is that true? Dagon: Yeah, absolutely, no secret. And it’s not my fault and not the label's fault, I know lots of people are telling this, but it’s the system's in Europe fault. Because they don’t respect freedom of speech and the music industry here, the distributors here, everybody is so damned scared of antifa. In the States, we wouldn’t have to do that. I did nothing wrong, you need to be angry for that, you know there is a simple theory: if you wanna know who’s in control, you will find it out by knowing who you cannot criticise. As soon as you are told to shut up and that you can’t say something about religion, or that you can’t say something about a culture or anything, because somebody considers it as something special that cannot be criticised, then you tell me, who’s the problem? The other thing is, that Kramer created a problem himself and I never get into that, because it’s personal, but we paid him to do some art, he did not meet the deadline, so we had to find a different artist. While I was looking for a new artist, I was calling him, he was not returning my calls, so when he finally called me to say ‘I’m ready to do the art’ I said ‘Man, we haven’t spoken for months, like two months!’. He said ‘Well, you were on tour till now’ but I was calling him and I had to find a new artist. He got pissed when I told him he was Paolo [Girardi, editor's note]. He said 'Oh, cancel the art, I’m ready to do the new art’, but I said it was too late. Paolo is pretty fast and he’s really good, he’s amazing and I always loved his art.
Selenia: I know you're a fan of krautrock, of noise and of cosmic music like Tangerine Dream and I really feel a link between them and your Inquisition. Both of you have this sort of "meditative sound", Tangerine Dream music is like an electronic meditation and you do the same thing but in a darker way. I also know you listen to the music from the baroque period and in fact I found a link with that too, because you have the same epic style in certain parts. Dagon: Did you really see that? I absolutely agree 100% on both that points!
Selenia: Assuming that Inquisition have a clear spiritualistic approach, what is your personal spirituality? Dagon: Well, it’s part of intuition. I fallow my intuition, I think intuition is the greatest thing we have. Some people call it third eye, some people feel that they’re gifted with their intuition and stronger than others. Mine is very strong and I follow it all the times. And I think intuition is not just an instinct, I don’t think is something built in your DNA, I don’t think it’s a third eye thing, but I follow my inner voice and I know it may not sound deep, as we use that word a lot, but it comes from, we can say, simple psychology. I think psychology and spirituality are tied together. The psychology is what makes us who we are, our personality, the psychology of us; and then we have -well, somebody believe we don’t- but we can say we have a soul. We have the two things, soul and the psychology of the mind. They say that the soul can live forever, so the soul is something not easy to explain, your intuition tells you what it is and that’s why you need to know yourself. That's an art form too.
Selenia: One of the main characteristics of Inquisition is that you can clearly hear each note, each riff. I feel much rationality in your musical compositions, even the faster parts of the tracks are not impulsive, they seem to be mediated by your rationality. Can we say that your musical approach is mathematical? Dagon: Well, music is math, but maybe you can explain it better?
Selenia: Yeah I mean, you can hear a certain serialism in the development of the track, you can hear the faster parts, the arpeggios, the chords and it seems that everything is repeated as in a serial composition. I know it's a bit complicated to explain, I'm sorry! [I laugh] Dagon: [He's a bit surprised and intrigued by my question and he laughs too] No, it's ok, I understand now! Well, it’s somewhat kind conscious when I plan the numerical value of the repetitions, it's a binary system. Music is math and one thing I like about the baroque period is that a lot of people begun not to like predictability. I think you said the word serialism right? The reason why serialism existed is because for the last 4-5 hundred years music has been too predictable, because of this binary system. Then there were the black keys versus the white keys [as in madrigal compositions, editor's note], these tempos, these chords, these harmonies. I like predictability, I think it gives a sense of peace to the mind, it may have to do with my own mind, now that I think, because I need organization, so I can think better, feel better and so my music is like a therapist of myself. I will experience many more with breaking that mode for the next album, but overall I really like the formula we have, I like the binary system and the predictability, I’m ok with people knowing where the song is going to go. To know where it is going has a double valence: predictable music can either be boring to people but can also be something that makes people go crazy, like ‘I knew you were gonna do that!’ and I love that. Your brain asks for it.
Selenia: Your musicality, along with your vocal style, really make a unique sound and contribute to create your specific identity. I also noticed that you, at a certain point, insert some parts that interrupt the fluidity of the track. For example the trembling voice of Desolate Funeral Chant -which is my favourite one-, or the sound effect in the background of Command of the Dark Crown, or the "neo-folk" arpeggio in The Initiation. Dagon: Yes, I think that if I were a painter, I will paint clean landscapes, not too confused, but then one small highlight in the back. That's what I would do if I were a painter, that would be my style. I would maybe use complexity in a small scale, for what I call emotional complexity: it's something small, but emotionally complex.
Selenia: I remember your last show in Rome, I was there, and during your performance there were some people making noise, so you told them to be silent, as they were interrupting the ritual. The need to remain concentrated and focused on the performance, along with your will to preserve your personal identity, really reminds me samurais attitude. For example I thought about Mishima, because he was kind obsessed in doing ritualistic actions, even at the point of his death; he was a samurai and he was deeply involved in the preservation of his identity. I know, I'm a bit original with comparisons! [I laugh] Dagon: [He laughs too] Oh no, metaphor is good! I absolutely agree. You know, we see sometimes our music as a form of war: our voice is against someone or an established system, your instrument is a weapon for the battle, I always respect it like a samurai respect his sword and, as musicians, we made a lot of sacrifices, is a very dramatic thing. For example, when at the end of the day you say 'This is just music', it really is, but it's not like a lot of pop music. I mean, to create something so obscure like this and to make sense lot of people think is easy. You have always different vocals styles, you put the distortion on the guitars, a lot of people can do it, but really few can manage to transcend that level of "just music" into e new higher level. You know, samurais were more than just warriors, they were spiritual warriors also, they were religious, they were philosophers, they were smart people, they were dangerous also without the sword and I think that in music it's important too. If a day comes when I'm not gonna be able to touch my guitar anymore, because I've lost a hand or I'm just not a musician anymore, then who am I? It's important for a musician also -not for all the musicians, but surely for me- to equally have some substance as a human being also without my guitar. Because the day you lose that quality, then who are you? And so, the samurai was always way more elevated than just a person with a sword. The sword doesn't make him who he is and so the guitar doesn't make me who I am. It's the other way around. I get life to my guitar, guitar may give me some life, but I'm supposed to be the one putting the soul into the instrument and it comes out from the amplifiers. It's a very good parallel.
Selenia: I'm happy you agree! Your lyrics focus on quantum physics, science, astrology, basically they talk about the world outside our world. Do you believe in the astrologic power to control or influence our actions, or do you believe in our freedom and independence to choose? Dagon: Astrology itself has an influence over psychology, it's difficult to prove, I know that, but there is a connection between astrology and many, many things in history. For example, the ancient Egyptians astrology, so nothing new. Or the Chinese and ancient Asian culture, the Celts, the Sumerians, the Aboriginal Australians, South American and Central American cultures, the Navajos in the United States... ancient cultures have always believed in stars and in a form of influence over the mind. Can science prove it or not? We don't need it, we don't need to prove that, the amazing thing is that science has already told -and it's funny- that we are literally made of stars, we're made of the same elements. When the universe was boiling before the supposed great explosion, every molecule, every atom came from that moment, before we were put into a new universal order. So, on a very small microcosm scale, we're a universe ourselves and we're part of that. So the question is: is for that, that we think astrology has an influence over us? Or it's the other way round, astrology is simply a movement and the stars do influence us because we are made of stars? I'm sure you hear about the Moon having influence over us, the atmospheric pressure... I know it's not a cosmic theory, but atmospheric pressure before it rains let animals go away, people don't wanna leave their house, they get lazy, they get sleepy. So the weather has an influence on you, not just psychologically but physically.
Selenia: Oh yeah, I know that feeling! The weather especially influences my mood... Dagon: Yeah, you know, the movement of the stars, the movement of the Moon, the gravitation force they all have an effect over you. Why? We don't know, but we don't even know who made us, we don't know why we're here, so if we knew why we were here and why human being exists, we'd have a better understanding of quantum mechanics, of the universe meaning. The forces that we don't see make the universe work the way it does. So, if the Sumerians were right and the Anunnakis created us, they would be the ones to have the better understanding of why astrology does work. But we don't know, it's a mystery.
Selenia: But, do you look at all these invisible forces of the universe with what kind of feeling? Are you afraid, fascinated, or...? Dagon: I feel nothing because I see nothing, but I think this is the reason why we play around a little bit with the faith or something, we believe in life after death, in gods, in forces of nature, we ask questions, we write books about it and when I say "we" I mean humanity. It's not really a feeling, it's just a big question mark and that's why my way of dealing whit all this it is by making occult music. Of course it started with metal, with something shallow, superficial, but when you grow up you start caring about other things, about the spiritual aspect, about all that we can call the unseen world. I like to believe that there is much, much more than what we can see here and that's what I feel.
Selenia: I have the last question and is a bit strange. It's always difficult to define what music is. For example, I really liked the definition Ferruccio Busoni -an Italian classical composer- said about music. He basically said that music is "sonorous air" and I found it very suggestive, because air can be formed by anything, by dead leaves, by wind. So my question is: what do you think music is? Dagon: Well, wow... I have a lot of answers for that [he laughs]. For me music is an art form, it allows to organise frequencies into an art way. You said that sound is everywhere, it's like air. It can control emotions on a person and you can take them from one place to another, mentally and emotionally. It is the art of sound, that's what music is. Like he said it's air, air is everywhere, is very complex, I'm not going much into detail of what I think, because I should talk about the physics of sound. But for me, music basically is the art of organising sound into an art form, the art of telling stories, transporting minds.
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5
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There were many errors, but the glaring one is that you neglected to capitalize "Chinese" and "Asian." Is that a lack of editorial skills or an expression of small-mindedness? |
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thank you Véhément for you appreciation! it really means a lot to me. Dagon is the perfect interlocutor, it was a really interesting and intense experience. |
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Very intelligent interview: we need more like this... |
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Grazie mille cara, è stata una bella esperienza, seppur sfiancante, e spero di non aver fatto troppi errori grossolani nel riportare anche la versione inglese. Ho pensato di pubblicarla oltre a quella italiana perché mi sembrava un'intervista troppo interessante per non dare possibilità anche a chi non conosce la nostra lingua di comprenderla.  |
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Bell'intervista, complimenti Selenia! Mi è piaciuto il fatto che tu l'abbia postata in inglese. Leggendo, Dagon mi è sembrata una persona molto intelligente e con una visione molto profonda della musica, non mi riferisco solo al genere che propone. Si può essere concordi e non su alcune cose, tuttavia il concetto di musica è quello per me: qualcosa che proviene dall'animo combinato ad una sequenza di suoni, per esprimere delle emozioni. Bella, complimenti ancora! |
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